I like that 40k finally came up with an army for the daemonhunters, but they are the worst army they've so far devised. They aren't even really that good at killing daemons unless they take the options. An army called Daemonhunters shouldn't have to take options in order to hunt said daemons.
On the other hand, they're such a great idea for an army that it seems like a crying shame that they suck so bad. I've seen a few people try to work their way around the "suck" factor which I thing revolves around the lack of any ability to kill a tank, and this seems to be how people have managed.
First tactic, Allied armies: This tactic seems to work a bit. There's a direction you can't go. I think you have to do Space Marines with Daemonhunter allies rather than Daemonhunters with space marine allies, but there are problems here. You end up having to buy way too many troop choices to get a single las cannon on the board. Also, don't you want to load the grey knight terminators in the land raider? Well, it's like Mac and PC--the Ultramarine land raider is for Ultramarines, the Grey Knight land raider is for grey knights, and you can't buy it unless you have a Grey Knight hero along with the Ultramarine hero. It gets to be too many points just to play a normal army. Lastly, the problem is in conception. Are you playing Grey Knights, or Blood Angels with some Grey Knights hanging out. And hell...why not just make it Eldar with some Grey Knights hanging around.
Second tactic, IG/Grey Knights: Great tactic so long as you know you're playing IG. I even think that this is a great idea to punch up your IG's hth possabilities. But don't fool yourself. You can't just drop IG guys into another army. They need to be there in numbers to be effective. Otherwise, this only looks like a fix, and will normally come back to bite you in an actual game.
Third tactic, IG/Inquisitor: Again, this tactic is more about making a scary IG army than a real daemonhunter army. You're basically still playing IG with the added benifit of an Inquistor in a Land Raider. But the army will play the same thing and it's not nearly what you want to do, which is to play a grey knight army that doesn't suck....
Which brings me to tactic four, which comes to me from one of the guys in my group:
His reasoning is this: First, no psycannons. Aside from daemons who realy does it hurt. It's a waste of points.
Second, Daemonhunter dreadnoughts, un-modified with all the stuff you can buy dreadnoughts, are cheaper than marine dreadnoughts. Okay, use them. Three of these guys aught to take care of your more obvious tank problems.
Trade in the force nemesis weapons on the terminators for thunderhammers. They bust tanks. The urge is to throw around strength 6 power weapons, but you should think about at least trading over a few thunderhammers in order to make the terminator threat more real.
Lastly, you are a shooty army. You're not that great in hand to hand, but at a range of 24", you are mean. Anything longer, leave to the dreadnoughts and the inquisitor with heavy weapons servitors. Set up some fireplatforms, defend them at medium range with your grey knights, and kick the hell out of people as best you can with your terminators.
Last week I fought this force and won, but by the skin of my teeth and with a Thousand Sons army who are basically designed to wrip through Grey Knights like a hand goes through air.
Hope this helps.
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Pretty good idea. :D I feel inspired.
In me reading this post and being a daemonhunter player, i think you are wrong about almost everything you have just said.
first off, i would like to say that yes they do have flaws, but they ARE NOT the worst army, and really its pure skill and tactics to run them.
and now that 5th edition is out they now can kill tanks, and i dont under stand why you would say the arnt good in hand to hand, they are great in close combat.
and really i dont want to go on about everything else you have said but i will say, that if you do use them, then you are using them horribly wrong.
-nick
I appreciate what you're saying, but....
How do they kill tanks exactly? I man, maybe I've just never seen it done. I don't play DH very often or against them, but I'm pretty sure that if you bring a couple of big things to the battlefield, they're toast.
The problem is the points. They buy a landraider and I buy a landraider, but I don't have to buy the grey knight superguy to get it to work. Same with everything. They're prowess at hand to hand is nothing compared to genestealers and dark eldar--those ARE hand to hand armies and they'll stomp the Grey Knights one on one every time.
I think if Psycannons affected cover it would be a little different, though they still couldn't knock out dreads.
Look, if an IG army with 10 squads of 2 las-cannons apiece can't annhialate all the tanks on the board, a DH army with 2 such squads isn't going to have better odds. That's just math.
My guess is that GW believed their own hype with these guys and added five points to everything until in the end you look at a 1500 point army and its pinter compared to what's coming against you. If they outnumber you, outgun you, and out-hand to hand you, then they win.
That's why I am suggesting stronger 24" death zone capabilities versus long range or hand to hand. At 24" you can support, and hand to hand if needs be but it's a last resort here. One squad of grey knights has a 50/50 against a squad of genestealers (same number). I normally outnumber grey knight squads with GS and take about 3 squads of them to start, plus I have 10 other force allocations. The DHs are man down because of point cost.
yes, i do understand the points cost, but you are saying your going up against regular greyknights, but i want to know if you have gone up against greyknight terminators? if you have then im sure you know how mean they can be.
and at I7 with upgrades, your genestealers are in trouble.
but it all depends.
i would like to know how many points or tyranids you have?
My Tyranid force is basically an 1850 force so I have three squads of stealers in there (2 squads of gaunts, 2 squads of rippers, a lictor, 3 raveners, 2 carnifaxes, flying hive tyrant, 2 zoanthropes). It's rending that used to put them over the edge and really still does, just a little less so. What's more the command squad with the broodlord can infiltrate and gets a free move before the game giving them a shot off the line of 24" (if they roll well on fleet).
As for GK, I've fought against the termies, and well...hell yes they're mean, but the problem is that they're mean on one spot of the board if you see what I'm getting at. I still think that a group of termies after they decimate whatever they land on is going to need fire support to move to the next thing.
I've seen people play with the land raider option to move their termies around, but its a damn expensive punch and since you can't consolidate into the land raider, there's a pretty good chance that you can get shot at for a turn. If you're deep in enemy territory (outside of my 24" suggested kill range), you tend to be a main target (another reason for the dreads--they draw fire).
If you've already got the GKs working consider this only a suggestion. They're just one of those armies that I rarely see anyone get off the ground. But here's how I've seen them work a couple of times now and from what I've seen its an interesting tactic. Basically, you instigate a fire base (this works great with the new missions in 5th by the way). Dreadies fire, GKs shoot as a front line, and termies charge anything that charges the regular GK (the regular troops can hold their own and the termies on charge get the extra attack). Few things can survive such a defense to get the dreads into hth. Meanwhile, a second fire base is established with the Inquisitor and the servitors (forget psycannons, they cost too much). Because you have the Inq. you have access to the low level assassins. Use those to drop into the back row because they'll kill their points easy. In any case, this is the GK force as I've been fighting them and they're damn nasty.
Now, if you've got GK working some other way, hell, do that, but I've got to say I play a whole bunch of armies and I'm just not afraid of grey knights charging across the battlefield.
Lastly, and I think this was a mistake on GWs part, I don't think the Grey knights got a fair shake on Lesser daemons just coming back onto the board, hoard after hoard. Flamers of Tzeentch are a bit too nasty to have an endless supply on them just because GW thought the Grey Knights were powerful enough to take it. It seems to me that this is a big part of my problem with Grey Knights. GW thought of something cool conceptually and it translated into the game as a disadvantage for the army (they used to do this with Orks). I think you'll see the point in all that chaos fighting equipment that they have to pay for and probaly should just get for free.
I have played Daemonhunters for over a year now. I have a general rule about my list. No matter what point range I always take my crusader. Yeah, dont scoff yet. When you consider the hammer and the anvil concept, think of the crusader as the hammer. I normally use this with my Grandmaster and at least 2 units of troops. I use this to draw the units where I need them, which is closing in on my HQ. With the teleport homer I have managed to take 3 units of 3 Terminators, the Brother Captians with Incinerators and 1 more of each unit with incinerator and then 1 just basic. I also have 3 troops when I can afford it with the same setup. I think the rules have changed now though. Or at least been cleared up. But I Deep strike them and lay templates and fire stormbolters. Most of the time I target 1 or 2 units. This usually doesnt leave anybody left. If that isnt enough then the crusader with stormbolter and hurricane bolters tears it up. I add psycannon bolts to it so theres no Inv. saves. My friend plays a Khorne army and we have always had slugfests. I think GW should fix some of the details. The crusader and all their bolt weapons should have Psycannon Bolts. Since they are a secret Army of the Imperium then they should be hell on wheels for the enemy.
I think they should make them have less ally-ability. I think they should be only used with Inquisition units, and I dont mean stormtroopers. There needs to be another infantry unit. One that doesnt count as a troop or FA or heavy. One that still has armor equal to GKs. a plastic kit like all the others. GW needs to quit changing the rules so much and focus on fixing the armies first.
Sorry if I rambled but I wanted to just give my pov.
My first model ever purchased was a genestealer. This was back in the 1980's. I still have them with my 10k point Nid army. I have 2 more boxes of gstealers to paint yet! I want them to come out with a genestealer cult codex. I am ready for that. I have hybrids too. Keep this game fun and dont ever quit it!!!!
~Dave
I think the Crusader option is now extremely viable. In fact, I like Crusaders a heck of a lot more than the regular landraider. The reasons for this are rather simple, vehicles just don't die as easilly anymore. A normal landraider won't die, but it won't do its job either. It may cause nine wounds in a game, but it won't take out a dreadnought a round as it used to. The crusader gets people into combat fast and can fire more weapons while doing so.
One thing I think the grey knights have lost out on is the force weapon. There's just too many eternal warriors now.
after being a while, i take a look at this and i have to say one thing, their force weapons do kill things that ignore instant death. it says in their discription that they slay outright they do not cause instant death so they ignore the eternal warrior rule. this has been varified by GW and is true.
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